No subject
Fri Jul 31 09:19:06 PDT 2015
block to participation. I would have to agree with Ralf that git seems to
be a tool for very smart people but not for folks who just want a simple
tool for managing code.
I can't agree with Markus that a linear history is dispensable. In fact,
this is one feature in svn that I've found very helpful over the years. If
a feature is broken today, but I know for a fact that it worked sometime in
the past, I simply do a svn update -r "[datestamp]" to narrow down the
exact date when the feature became broken, then I isolate the exact commit
and look at the code. Can this be done with git or does it even make sense
if there is no concept of linear change?
The git environment seems a bit chaotic, and not conducive to close
cooperation, from what I can see now. More experience with it may convince
me otherwise.
Nick
Nicholas K. Sauter, Ph. D.
Computer Staff Scientist, Molecular Biophysics and Integrated Bioimaging
Division
Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory
1 Cyclotron Rd., Bldg. 33R0345
Berkeley, CA 94720
(510) 486-5713
On Tue, Jan 12, 2016 at 2:22 AM, <luis.fuentes-montero at diamond.ac.uk> wrote=
:
> Hi fellows,
>
>
>
> I believe it is not a bad idea to move to https://github.com (the
> servers) and later on decide if move to use *git* (the CLI tool). This
> can an incremental way to do transition. And will allow really old fashio=
n
> developers (those who refuse to learn *git*) or conservative policies to
> survive and still move to a new more reliable code repository.
>
>
>
> Just my thoughts,
>
>
>
> Greetings,
>
>
>
> Luiso
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* cctbxbb-bounces at phenix-online.org [mailto:
> cctbxbb-bounces at phenix-online.org] *On Behalf Of *
> markus.gerstel at diamond.ac.uk
> *Sent:* 12 January 2016 09:56
> *To:* cctbxbb at phenix-online.org
> *Subject:* Re: [cctbxbb] Git
>
>
>
> Dear Luc,
>
>
>
> We actually had a look at the quality of the Github svn interface when we
> prepared for the DIALS move. My verdict was that it is surprisingly usefu=
l.
>
> All the possible git operations are mapped rather well onto a linear SVN
> history. All the branches and tags are accessible either by checking out
> the root of the repository, ie.
>
> svn co https://github.com/dials/dials.git (not recommended, as,
> say, any new branch/tag will probably result in a huge update operation f=
or
> you)
>
> or by checking them out directly, ie.
>
> svn co https://github.com/dials/dials.git/branches/fix_export
>
> or svn co https://github.com/dials/dials.git/tags/1.0
>
>
>
> Forks by other people are, as is the case when using git, simply not
> visible. I agree that looking at the project history through SVN may not =
be
> as clear as the git history. I wonder how relevant this is though, as you
> can explore the history, without running any commands, on the Github
> website, eg. https://github.com/dials/dials/network,
> https://github.com/dials/dials/commits/master, etc.
>
>
>
> Creating new branches and tags and merging stuff via SVN would be a major
> operation. However, that has always been the case with SVN, and for that
> reason one generally just does not do these things in SVN.
>
> But for an SVN user group those operations would not be important =E2=80=
=93 you
> every only need to merge stuff if you create branches =E2=80=93 so I don=
=E2=80=99t really
> see the problem. If you want to tag releases you can do that on the Githu=
b
> website as well as with a git command.
>
>
>
> In summary, I do recognize that SVN users will have difficulties
> participating in branched development, and in particular will not be able
> to quickly switch between branches.
>
> But I don=E2=80=99t think that this will be a problem, or that there is a=
need for
> a policy to keep the history linear.
>
>
>
> Best wishes
>
> -Markus
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* cctbxbb-bounces at phenix-online.org [
> mailto:cctbxbb-bounces at phenix-online.org
> <cctbxbb-bounces at phenix-online.org>] *On Behalf Of *Luc Bourhis
> *Sent:* 11 January 2016 16:45
> *To:* cctbx mailing list
> *Subject:* Re: [cctbxbb] Gi,
>
>
>
> Hi Graeme,
>
>
>
> Can we revisit the idea of moving to git for cctbx?
>
>
>
> This brings to mind a question I have been asking myself since the subjec=
t
> has been brought forth. The idea Paul wrote about on this list was a move
> to Github. I guess some, perhaps many, developers will keep interacting
> with the repository using subversion. I am worried this would clash with
> the workflow of those of us who would go the native git way. By that I me=
an
> creating many branches and merge points, which one would merge into the
> official repository when ready. I am worried the history would look very
> opaque for the subversion users. I would even probably create a fork on
> Github, making it even more opaque for a tool like subversion. Has anybod=
y
> thought about such issues? My preferred solution would be for everybody t=
o
> move to git but I don=E2=80=99t think that=E2=80=99s realistic. At the ot=
her end of the
> spectrum, there is putting in place a policy to keep the history linear.
>
>
>
> Best wishes,
>
>
>
> Luc
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential, copyright and o=
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> privileged material, and are for the use of the intended addressee only. =
If
> you are not the intended addressee or an authorised recipient of the
> addressee please notify us of receipt by returning the e-mail and do not
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> Any opinions expressed within this e-mail are those of the individual and
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> This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential, copyright and o=
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> privileged material, and are for the use of the intended addressee only. =
If
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> use, copy, retain, distribute or disclose the information in or attached =
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> the e-mail.
> Any opinions expressed within this e-mail are those of the individual and
> not necessarily of Diamond Light Source Ltd.
> Diamond Light Source Ltd. cannot guarantee that this e-mail or any
> attachments are free from viruses and we cannot accept liability for any
> damage which you may sustain as a result of software viruses which may be
> transmitted in or with the message.
> Diamond Light Source Limited (company no. 4375679). Registered in England
> and Wales with its registered office at Diamond House, Harwell Science an=
d
> Innovation Campus, Didcot, Oxfordshire, OX11 0DE, United Kingdom
>
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--001a1143f1542e3306052926b898
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div dir=3D"ltr">From the DIALS-West perspective, the switch to git has bee=
n a stumbling block to participation.=C2=A0 I would have to agree with Ralf=
that git seems to be a tool for very smart people but not for folks who ju=
st want a simple tool for managing code.=C2=A0<div><br></div><div>I can'=
;t agree with Markus that a linear history is dispensable.=C2=A0 In fact, t=
his is one feature in svn that I've found very helpful over the years.=
=C2=A0 If a feature is broken today, but I know for a fact that it worked s=
ometime in the past, I simply do a svn update -r "[datestamp]" to=
narrow down the exact date when the feature became broken, then I isolate =
the exact commit and look at the code.=C2=A0 Can this be done with git or d=
oes it even make sense if there is no concept of linear change?</div><div><=
br></div><div>The git environment seems a bit chaotic, and not conducive to=
close cooperation, from what I can see now.=C2=A0 More experience with it =
may convince me otherwise.</div><div><br></div><div>Nick</div></div><div cl=
ass=3D"gmail_extra"><br clear=3D"all"><div><div class=3D"gmail_signature"><=
div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Nicholas K. Sauter, Ph. D.<br>Computer Staff Scientist=
,=C2=A0Molecular Biophysics and Integrated Bioimaging Division<div>Lawrence=
Berkeley National Laboratory<br>1 Cyclotron Rd., Bldg. 33R0345<br>Berkeley=
, CA 94720<br>(510) 486-5713<br></div></div></div></div></div>
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Jan 12, 2016 at 2:22 AM, <span dir=
=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:luis.fuentes-montero at diamond.ac.uk" target=
=3D"_blank">luis.fuentes-montero at diamond.ac.uk</a>></span> wrote:<br><bl=
ockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #=
ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div lang=3D"EN-GB" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Hi fellows,<u></u><u></u>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">I believe it is not a bad=
idea to move to
</span><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",&quo=
t;sans-serif";color:#1f497d">=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://github.com" targ=
et=3D"_blank">https://github.com</a> (the servers) and later on decide if m=
ove to use
<i>git</i> (the CLI tool). This can an incremental way to do transition. An=
d will allow really old fashion developers (those who refuse to learn
<i>git</i>) or conservative policies to survive and still move to a new mor=
e reliable code repository.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Just my thoughts,<u></u><=
u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Greetings,<u></u><u></u><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Luiso<u></u><u></u></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></spa=
n></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fo=
nt-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",&qu=
ot;sans-serif""> <a href=3D"mailto:cctbxbb-bounces at phenix-online.org" =
target=3D"_blank">cctbxbb-bounces at phenix-online.org</a> [mailto:<a href=3D"=
mailto:cctbxbb-bounces at phenix-online.org" target=3D"_blank">cctbxbb-bounces=
@phenix-online.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b><a href=3D"mailto:markus.gerstel at diamond.ac.uk" target=
=3D"_blank">markus.gerstel at diamond.ac.uk</a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> 12 January 2016 09:56<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:cctbxbb at phenix-online.org" target=3D"_blank">c=
ctbxbb at phenix-online.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [cctbxbb] Git<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div><div><div class=3D"h5">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Dear Luc,<u></u><u></u></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">We actually had a look at=
the quality of the Github svn interface when we prepared for the DIALS mov=
e. My verdict was that it is surprisingly useful.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">All the possible git oper=
ations are mapped rather well onto a linear SVN history. All the branches a=
nd tags are accessible either by checking out the root of
the repository, ie.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0svn co
<a href=3D"https://github.com/dials/dials.git" target=3D"_blank">https://gi=
thub.com/dials/dials.git</a> (not recommended, as, say, any new branch/tag =
will probably result in a huge update operation for you)
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">or by checking them out d=
irectly, ie.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a name=3D"499420489__MailEndCompose"><span style=3D=
"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";co=
lor:#1f497d">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0svn co
</span></a><a href=3D"https://github.com/dials/dials.git/branches/fix_expor=
t" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Cali=
bri","sans-serif"">https://github.com/dials/dials.git/branch=
es/fix_export</span></a><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"C=
alibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">=C2=A0 or =C2=A0svn co
</span><a href=3D"https://github.com/dials/dials.git/tags/1.0" target=3D"_b=
lank"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","=
;sans-serif"">https://github.com/dials/dials.git/tags/1.0</span></a><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-se=
rif";color:#1f497d">
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Forks by other people are=
, as is the case when using git, simply not visible. I agree that looking a=
t the project history through SVN may not be as clear as
the git history. I wonder how relevant this is though, as you can explore =
the history, without running any commands, on the Github website, eg.
</span><a href=3D"https://github.com/dials/dials/network" target=3D"_blank"=
><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans=
-serif"">https://github.com/dials/dials/network</span></a><span style=
=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"=
;color:#1f497d">,
</span><a href=3D"https://github.com/dials/dials/commits/master" target=3D"=
_blank"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",&qu=
ot;sans-serif"">https://github.com/dials/dials/commits/master</span></=
a><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","san=
s-serif";color:#1f497d">,
etc.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Creating new branches and=
tags and merging stuff via SVN would be a major operation. However, that h=
as always been the case with SVN, and for that reason one
generally just does not do these things in SVN.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">But for an SVN user group=
those operations would not be important =E2=80=93 you every only need to m=
erge stuff if you create branches =E2=80=93 so I don=E2=80=99t really see t=
he problem.
If you want to tag releases you can do that on the Github website as well =
as with a git command.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">In summary, I do recogniz=
e that SVN users will have difficulties participating in branched developme=
nt, and in particular will not be able to quickly switch
between branches.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">But I don=E2=80=99t think=
that this will be a problem, or that there is a need for a policy to keep =
the history linear.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Best wishes<u></u><u></u>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">-Markus<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></spa=
n></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fo=
nt-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span =
lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",&qu=
ot;sans-serif"">
<a href=3D"mailto:cctbxbb-bounces at phenix-online.org" target=3D"_blank">cctb=
xbb-bounces at phenix-online.org</a> [<a href=3D"mailto:cctbxbb-bounces at phenix=
-online.org" target=3D"_blank">mailto:cctbxbb-bounces at phenix-online.org</a>=
]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Luc Bourhis<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 11 January 2016 16:45<br>
<b>To:</b> cctbx mailing list<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [cctbxbb] Gi, <u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Graeme,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u><=
/p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif"">Can we revisit the idea of moving to gi=
t for cctbx?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">This brings to mind a question I have been asking my=
self since the subject has been brought forth. The idea Paul wrote about on=
this list was a move to Github. I guess some, perhaps many, developers wil=
l keep interacting with the repository
using subversion. I am worried this would clash with the workflow of those=
of us who would go the native git way. By that I mean creating many branch=
es and merge points, which one would merge into the official repository whe=
n ready. I am worried the history
would look very opaque for the subversion users. I would even probably cre=
ate a fork on Github, making it even more opaque for a tool like subversion=
. Has anybody thought about such issues? My preferred solution would be for=
everybody to move to git but I
don=E2=80=99t think that=E2=80=99s realistic. At the other end of the spec=
trum, there is putting in place a policy to keep the history linear.<u></u>=
<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Best wishes,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Luc<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<p>=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p>--=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p>This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential, copyright and =
or privileged material, and are for the use of the intended addressee only.=
If you are not the intended addressee or an authorised recipient of the ad=
dressee please notify us of receipt
by returning the e-mail and do not use, copy, retain, distribute or disclo=
se the information in or attached to the e-mail.<br>
Any opinions expressed within this e-mail are those of the individual and n=
ot necessarily of Diamond Light Source Ltd.
<br>
Diamond Light Source Ltd. cannot guarantee that this e-mail or any attachme=
nts are free from viruses and we cannot accept liability for any damage whi=
ch you may sustain as a result of software viruses which may be transmitted=
in or with the message.<br>
Diamond Light Source Limited (company no. 4375679). Registered in England a=
nd Wales with its registered office at Diamond House, Harwell Science and I=
nnovation Campus, Didcot, Oxfordshire, OX11 0DE, United Kingdom<br>
=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div></div></div><div><div class=3D"h5">
<p align=3D"justify">=C2=A0</p>
<p align=3D"justify">--=C2=A0</p>
<p align=3D"justify">This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidenti=
al, copyright and or privileged material, and are for the use of the intend=
ed addressee only. If you are not the intended addressee or an authorised r=
ecipient of the addressee please notify us of receipt by returning the e-ma=
il and do not use, copy, retain, distribute or disclose the information in =
or attached to the e-mail.<br>Any opinions expressed within this e-mail are=
those of the individual and not necessarily of Diamond Light Source Ltd. <=
br>Diamond Light Source Ltd. cannot guarantee that this e-mail or any attac=
hments are free from viruses and we cannot accept liability for any damage =
which you may sustain as a result of software viruses which may be transmit=
ted in or with the message.<br>Diamond Light Source Limited (company no. 43=
75679). Registered in England and Wales with its registered office at Diamo=
nd House, Harwell Science and Innovation Campus, Didcot, Oxfordshire, OX11 =
0DE, United Kingdom<br>=C2=A0</p></div></div></div>
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