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Hi Maia,<br>
<br>
you can try to build a new test set of reflections using "thin shells"
algorithm. PHENIX can't create such test set, so you need to use an
outside program that can generate it. Make sure you generate the same
number of test reflections.<br>
<br>
However, and this is a *big* however, you will have to remove the
"memory" from newly generated test set. How? Remove all waters, reset
all B-factors to average one, shake coordinates to achieve rmsd~1A and
then run 10-20 macro-cycles of refinement in phenix.refine (or until
the R-factors stop changing), that will include:<br>
- simulated-annealing;<br>
- automatic water picking;<br>
- refinement of individual coordinates and B-factors;<br>
- after you have done this run, run the second run of simple xyz and
b-factors refinement using "optimize_wxc=true optimize_wxu=true".<br>
<br>
Repeat the above steps with and w/o NCS. What do you get?<br>
<br>
I would also do the above extensive model shaking/re-refining using the
original test set, just to make sure that this will not be enough to
make the Rfree-Rwork, Rwork and Rfree change significantly without
resorting to a different test set.<br>
<br>
Pavel.<br>
<br>
PS> I also use 10% of test reflections...<br>
<br>
<br>
On 5/5/09 2:14 PM, Maia Cherney wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:4A00AC2B.2060509@ualberta.ca" type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Thank you Nat, Pavel,
Actually, the NCS approaches a 3-fold crystallographic symmetry axis
with 3 types of protein molecules plus 2 restraint groups for DNA molecules.
The result is the same with "optimize_wxc=true optimize_wxu=true"
options, Rfree is going up without NCS by ~1.5%. Rwork is practically
the same.
Should I increase the test set (now it's 5%)? or should I leave NCS=true
for the final pdb?
Maia
Nathaniel Echols wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">On May 4, 2009, at 6:48 PM, Maia Cherney wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">The resolution is 2.15 A. The NCS was always on during the refinement
until we got low R factors (19.2% and 21.2%). Then the NCS was turned
off for the final refinement and the R factors increased, which is
strange as they should be going down when you apply less restraints.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">This isn't necessarily true - regardless of which program you use to
refine, R-work isn't actually the refinement target, and minimization
algorithms aren't foolproof either. When you remove the restraints
you are effectively decreasing the observation:parameter ratio, which
increases the risk of overfitting. If nothing else I would expect the
gap between Rwork and Rfree to increase, but I've also seen both
increase when NCS restraints were removed.
It may be possible that the NCS restraints are biasing your test set,
leading to the suspiciously low Rfree-Rwork gap, but I thought this
only applied when the NCS approached crystallographic symmetry, and
there's no such thing as fivefold crystallographic symmetry.
Hopefully someone else on the list can clarify this.
-Nat
-------------------
Nathaniel Echols
Lawrence Berkeley Lab
510-486-5136
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:NEchols@lbl.gov">NEchols@lbl.gov</a>
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