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    Yes, same mtz input file<br>
    <br>
    Sabine<br>
    <br>
    On 08/12/2011 03:04 PM, Antony Oliver wrote:
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:D3F13CE3-DF1E-4E0F-AED0-BF565811BC5E@sussex.ac.uk"
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      <div>Possibly a silly question - but did you use the same R-free
        reflection subset in both refinements?<br>
      </div>
      <div><br>
        Sent from my iPhone</div>
      <div><br>
        On 12 Aug 2011, at 13:59, "Sabine Schneider" &lt;<a
          moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:sabine.schneider@mytum.de">sabine.schneider@mytum.de</a>&gt;
        wrote:<br>
        <br>
      </div>
      <blockquote type="cite">
        <div>Hello Partha,<br>
          <br>
          At the moment I was more looking, if it makes a difference
          what comes out from Refmac, when I feed it different start
          models; straight from Phaser, reset B-values, after shaking
          coordinates, after shaking coordinates and SA, and so on....<br>
          <br>
          I assumed, if I put the output from Phenix (with R/Rfree X/X&nbsp;
          reported by phenix) to be identical to the R/Rfree Refmac
          reports as START value when it gets directly the output pdb
          from phenix?
          <br>
          I thought the reported R/Rfree values are just something like
          'model vs data'? That's what I am confused about...<br>
          <br>
          No twinning, no automated water building, just 1mol/asu, no
          twinning<br>
          <br>
          Sabine<br>
          <br>
          <br>
          <br>
          On 08/12/2011 02:36 PM, Partha Chakrabarti wrote:
          <blockquote
cite="mid:CABUfuXOGOAhTL81mDWUr8Gj92hsWz-HMRRJQ6oAuyJnjdWPCOQ@mail.gmail.com"
            type="cite">
            <div>Hi Sabine,</div>
            <div>&nbsp;</div>
            <div>I believe&nbsp;the comparison should be with same input, not
              output of one piped into another.</div>
            <div>&nbsp;</div>
            <div>How different are the geometry? Different programs use
              different algorithm and different&nbsp;xray:geometry term by
              default.&nbsp;Hence, it might only make sense if the RMSD are
              almost exactly the same. Furthermore, is one program
              detecting NCS&nbsp; or twining or building waters
              automatically? Then everything is blown up anyway.</div>
            <div>&nbsp;</div>
            <div>In any case, refinemt program A vs. B is an interesting
              topic! I would not start one.. ;)<br>
            </div>
            <div>MFG,</div>
            <div>Partha<br>
              <br>
            </div>
            <div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Aug 12, 2011 at 5:19 PM,
              Sabine Schneider <span dir="ltr">
                &lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                  href="mailto:sabine.schneider@mytum.de">sabine.schneider@mytum.de</a>&gt;</span>
              wrote:<br>
              <blockquote style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204,
                204); margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"
                class="gmail_quote">
                Hello,<br>
                <br>
                I am refining a structure at 2.1A solved by MR. For
                curiosity I'm testing things like 'shaking' coordinates,
                simulated annealing, refinement Refmac vs Phenix and so
                on, to see what influence that has on stats, maps etc.<br>
                <br>
                For instance after MR I did a bit of shaking the
                coordinates with pdbset (noise 0.1), followed by
                simulated annealing in Phenix.<br>
                Phenix states after SA:<br>
                <br>
                Start R-work = 0.2671, R-free = 0.2992<br>
                Final R-work = 0.2312, R-free = 0.2666<br>
                <br>
                When I use the output pdb of phenix directly in Refmac
                (with same mtz as input for Phenix)<br>
                Refmac tells me:<br>
                Initial R factor &nbsp; &nbsp;0.2392 &nbsp; R free &nbsp; &nbsp;0.2887<br>
                <br>
                So I am quite puzzled about the discrepancy. Or can
                someone tell me if I made an error in reasoning
                somewhere?<br>
                <br>
                Thanks a lot for the help!<br>
                Sabine<br>
                <br>
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