<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=iso-8859-1"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Dear Pavel<div><br></div><div>yes, the refinement did converge. I did 6 macrocycles and in separate runs started from different average atomic B-factors of 32, 66 and 97 keeping the distribution as in the original high resolution molecular replacement model from the same crystal form (i.e. adding 0, 34 and 65 to all atomic B-factors in the starting pdb). In all cases after 6 macrocycles I get an almost identical distribution of B-factors and also average B-factor of about 52. Also setting all B-factors to the same value of 66 gave a similar distribution after refinement with an average of 52. However, in the latter case the R-free was about 2% higher compared to starting from the original distribution, but it dropped by about 1% during refinement.</div><div><br></div><div>Best regards</div><div><br></div><div>Florian</div><div><br></div><div><br><div><div>Am 21.03.2013 um 06:40 schrieb Pavel Afonine <<a href="mailto:pafonine@lbl.gov">pafonine@lbl.gov</a>>:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite">
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Hi Florian,<br>
<br>
I'm glad it works now. Regarding difference between Wilson B and
mean refined B: well, it's hard to quantify what's "too low" or
"too different". Average refined B may deviate from Wilson B and
the difference in your case does not seem to be terribly large. <br>
Did the refinement converge? What if you do say 10 or 20
macro-cycles instead of default 3? Will B-factors further change
between macro-cycles?<br>
<br>
Pavel<br>
<br>
On 3/19/13 7:37 AM, Florian Br�ckner wrote:<br>
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Dear Keitaro and Pavel,
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<div>thank you for your suggestions. I have now used the latest
nightly build (1326). With this version, the average B-factor
converges at about 52 A**2 and also the distribution is very
similar, regardless with what B-factors I start the refinement
(I tried average B-factors between 32 and 97). So clearly the
behavior of this newest version is different from the version I
have been using before (1.8.1 stable release 1168) and also from
the latest stable release (1.8.2 stable release 1309), which
behaves the same as 1168. To me the B-factors still look a bit
too low, since the Wilson B-factor calculated by phenix is
66.45, the Wilson B-factor I determined manually from the linear
part of the Wilson plot is 97.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Best regards</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Florian</div>
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<div>Am 19.03.2013 um 00:06 schrieb Keitaro Yamashita <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:yamashita@castor.sci.hokudai.ac.jp">yamashita@castor.sci.hokudai.ac.jp</a>>:</div>
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<blockquote type="cite">Dear Florian,<br>
<br>
Maybe you are using phenix-dev-1311 or earlier?<br>
I am afraid that you have experienced the bug that overall
B-factor is<br>
not applied to individual atomic B-factors in certain cases,
which I<br>
have also experienced recently. That bug was fixed in
dev-1312 if I<br>
recall correctly.<br>
<br>
Hope it helps,<br>
Keitaro<br>
<br>
2013/3/19 Florian Br�ckner <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:florian.brueckner@psi.ch">florian.brueckner@psi.ch</a>>:<br>
<blockquote type="cite">Dear all<br>
<br>
I am refining a structure at 3.2 A with phenix.refine
using automatic<br>
optimization of target weights, solved by molecular
replacement with a 2.1A<br>
structure of the same crystal form. Rwork=26%, Rfree=28%.
I use individual<br>
atomic B-factor refinement. The obtained distribution of
B-factors after<br>
refinement looks reasonable and quite similar to the
distribution in the<br>
higher resolution model, which I suppose would be
expected, since it is the<br>
same crystal form. However, the average B-factor does not
change<br>
substantially, i.e. if I start with the B-factors from the
high resolution<br>
model (average B-factor around 32 A**2) after 6
macrocycles the average<br>
B-factor is still around 32 A**2. If I set all B-factors
to the Wilson<br>
B-factor determined by phenix.refine (66 A**2), after 6
macrocycles the<br>
distribution of B-factors looks again very similar to the
high resolution MR<br>
model, but the average B-factor is still around 65 A**2.
What should I make<br>
of this? Is this an expected behavior at this resolution,
i.e. the fact that<br>
the absolute values of B-factors cannot be determined
during refinement,<br>
although a reasonable distribution can be obtained as
judged by plotting<br>
average B-factors vs. residue#? Since the average B-factor
does not change<br>
much during refinement, which average B-factor should I
start refinement<br>
with to end up with reasonable absolute values? I have
manually determined<br>
the Wilson B-factor from the linear part of the Wilson
plot (4.5-3.2 A) to<br>
be 97 A**2. This seems high to me. Would that be expected
for the given<br>
resolution, given that the 2.1A structure of the same
crystal form has 32<br>
A**2? I should add, that there is not a substantial effect
of the average<br>
refined B-factor on Rfree.<br>
<br>
Thanks for any comments or suggestions.<br>
<br>
Best regards<br>
<br>
Florian<br>
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"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">-------------------------------------------------------------</div><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><br></div><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Dr. Florian Br�ckner<br>Laboratory of Biomolecular Research (LBR)</div><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">OFLG/102<br>Paul Scherrer Institut<br>CH-5232 Villigen PSI<br>Switzerland<br><br></div><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Tel.:<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre; "> </span>+41-(0)56-310-2332<br>Email:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre; "> </span><a href="mailto:florian.brueckner@psi.ch">florian.brueckner@psi.ch</a><br><br><br><br></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></span>
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