Twinned data with Phaser
Hello, I have been working on a structure for a very long while. We have a number of data sets with the good ones mostly around the 3.1-3.2 A range. I do have a determination of the structure but would like to see if I can get the structure determined with a slightly higher resolution data set at around 2.7 A. Problem is the 2.7 data is twinned. Are there settings in Phaser to handle twinned data or is the twinning only handled during refinement? Thank you for any advice, outside of forgetting about the twinned data. Len Leonard Thomas, Ph.D. Macromolecular Crystallography Laboratory Oklahoma COBRE in Structural Biology Price Family Foundation Institute of Structural Biology University of Oklahoma Department of Chemistry and Biochemistry Stephenson Life Sciences Research Center 101 Stephenson Parkway Norman, OK 73019-5251 Office: (405)325-1126 [email protected]mailto:[email protected] http://www.ou.edu/structuralbiology/cobre-core-facilities/mcl
Hi Len, We’ve thought about accounting for twinning during MR in Phaser, but our experience is that it just reduces the signal-to-noise ratio so that you need a somewhat better model or slightly higher resolution than you would need with untwinned data. So there always seems to be something more important to address! If you have a good model it should just work; if you have perfect merohedral twinning then you will probably get two solutions related by the twinning operator with similar scores, but if the twinning is partial you might only get a single solution corresponding to the major twin component. Best wishes, Randy
On 24 May 2021, at 22:45, Thomas, Leonard M.
wrote: Hello,
I have been working on a structure for a very long while. We have a number of data sets with the good ones mostly around the 3.1-3.2 A range. I do have a determination of the structure but would like to see if I can get the structure determined with a slightly higher resolution data set at around 2.7 A. Problem is the 2.7 data is twinned. Are there settings in Phaser to handle twinned data or is the twinning only handled during refinement?
Thank you for any advice, outside of forgetting about the twinned data.
Len
Leonard Thomas, Ph.D. Macromolecular Crystallography Laboratory Oklahoma COBRE in Structural Biology Price Family Foundation Institute of Structural Biology University of Oklahoma Department of Chemistry and Biochemistry Stephenson Life Sciences Research Center 101 Stephenson Parkway Norman, OK 73019-5251 Office: (405)325-1126 [email protected] http://www.ou.edu/structuralbiology/cobre-core-facilities/mcl
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----- Randy J. Read Department of Haematology, University of Cambridge Cambridge Institute for Medical Research Tel: +44 1223 336500 The Keith Peters Building Fax: +44 1223 336827 Hills Road E-mail: [email protected] Cambridge CB2 0XY, U.K. www-structmed.cimr.cam.ac.uk
I wonder whether our common metrics for assessing resolution are more optimistic for twinned data compared to untwinned - has anyone investigated that? Fewer weak reflections will reduce any sort of R-factor, but i’m not sure of its effect on CC(1/2) There is always the question of what we mean by “the resolution of the data" Phil
On 24 May 2021, at 22:45, Thomas, Leonard M.
wrote: Hello,
I have been working on a structure for a very long while. We have a number of data sets with the good ones mostly around the 3.1-3.2 A range. I do have a determination of the structure but would like to see if I can get the structure determined with a slightly higher resolution data set at around 2.7 A. Problem is the 2.7 data is twinned. Are there settings in Phaser to handle twinned data or is the twinning only handled during refinement?
Thank you for any advice, outside of forgetting about the twinned data.
Len
Leonard Thomas, Ph.D. Macromolecular Crystallography Laboratory Oklahoma COBRE in Structural Biology Price Family Foundation Institute of Structural Biology University of Oklahoma Department of Chemistry and Biochemistry Stephenson Life Sciences Research Center 101 Stephenson Parkway Norman, OK 73019-5251 Office: (405)325-1126 [email protected] http://www.ou.edu/structuralbiology/cobre-core-facilities/mcl
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I can answer my own question about the effect of twinning on CC(1/2): here is a graph of CC(1/2) vs. resolution, estimated by the method of Assmann et al, see below. CC1/2tw are the values for artificially twinned data. There’s not much difference Phil Ref: Greta Assmann, Wolfgang Brehm, & Kay Diederichs, "Identification of rogue datasets in serial crystallography", J.Appl.Cryst, 49, 1021-1028 (2016)
On 25 May 2021, at 10:14, Phil Evans
wrote:I wonder whether our common metrics for assessing resolution are more optimistic for twinned data compared to untwinned - has anyone investigated that? Fewer weak reflections will reduce any sort of R-factor, but i’m not sure of its effect on CC(1/2)
There is always the question of what we mean by “the resolution of the data"
Phil
On 24 May 2021, at 22:45, Thomas, Leonard M.
wrote: Hello,
I have been working on a structure for a very long while. We have a number of data sets with the good ones mostly around the 3.1-3.2 A range. I do have a determination of the structure but would like to see if I can get the structure determined with a slightly higher resolution data set at around 2.7 A. Problem is the 2.7 data is twinned. Are there settings in Phaser to handle twinned data or is the twinning only handled during refinement?
Thank you for any advice, outside of forgetting about the twinned data.
Len
Leonard Thomas, Ph.D. Macromolecular Crystallography Laboratory Oklahoma COBRE in Structural Biology Price Family Foundation Institute of Structural Biology University of Oklahoma Department of Chemistry and Biochemistry Stephenson Life Sciences Research Center 101 Stephenson Parkway Norman, OK 73019-5251 Office: (405)325-1126 [email protected] http://www.ou.edu/structuralbiology/cobre-core-facilities/mcl
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participants (3)
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Phil Evans
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Randy John Read
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Thomas, Leonard M.